OBAMA-CARE Nazi Health Care - Need another $100 a month bill? Too bad! It’s mandatory! - Auto-Trend Repairs and Service Information Forums

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

OBAMA-CARE Nazi Health Care - Need another $100 a month bill? Too bad! It’s mandatory!

stoma · Member

LICK MY SCROT!!!!!!!!!

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Car insurance is mandatory, is that a bad thing?

The Health care legislation has more than 160 Republican amendments and counting. The final version of the bill hasn't even been written yet, so your facts are still not quite facts yet until both houses of congress combine all of their legislation in Conference and negotiate all the final details. Then it has to pass both houses and be signed into law by President Obama.

Health care costs are rising at 3 times the rate of wages, do you think the status quo is ok Rex? If nothing is done, health care, which is already 1/6 of our economy will, (in our lifetime) devour the entire federal budget and leave nothing left for Defense, Veterans benefits, Education assistance, Social Security, Infrastructure maintenance, Roads/bridges, Disaster relief, Foreign aid, Intelligence services, law enforcement, or anything else for that matter. Quite frankly, The single largest cause of our federal budget deficits are due to increasing health care costs. If you think we can't afford to do anything to fix it now, just imagine what we won't be able to fix if we leave it alone.

So why are costs rising? Well, there is a severe lack of regulation in the health insurance industry, and the industry is immune to anti-trust litigation. In many states a single health insurer has more than 90% of the market share. This combined with the wall street driven mentality that they need to put profits ahead of patient care has caused our country to pay twice what any other industrialized power pays for health care, and get horrible results when compared to other countries. We are in 38th place in terms of infant mortality, and we don't even make the top 20 for life expectancy... But we pay twice as much for these horrid results. The for profit private companies immediately skim approx 30% of our premiums for profit and administrative costs. Government health agencies like Medicare and the VA have about a 2% operating margin. This is why part of the reform, along with a mandate to purchase, absolutely needs to be at least an option for people to buy into a government program if they so choose. This competition is the only way to keep the for profit companies honest. If there were no post office, do you really think UPS and FedEx wouldn't gouge the fuck out of you anytime you needed to ship something.

We are already paying for people who don't have health insurance through our taxes when they go to the emergency room. Rex, if you are a fiscal hawk, and want lower taxes you should be fighting for this reform.

I realize Rex, that when Reagan said: "The nine most frightening words in the English language are: I'm from the government, and I'm here to help." This probably echoes in your mind and makes perfect sense to you. You are after all an "entrepreneur." And the last administration clearly demonstrated just how harmful government can be. But bear in mind, this reform package includes an enormous amount of consumer protections for the people who already have insurance Ie: You can no longer be denied based on pre existing conditions, no yearly or lifetime cap on coverage for catastrophic illness. If you or Brandie get cancer and try to get all of your treatments covered through a private insurer, let us know how that works out for you... You are in for a disappointment, and probably bankruptcy if God forbid that happened.

Obama didn't win the election because he's black, or because he's a Democrat. He won because the American people have been even more terrified by a different phrase: "I'm from the for profit health insurance industry... And I'm going to take real good care of you."

Capitalism is usually a good thing Rex, it is our economic system for most aspects of our lives. It is not, and should not be a religion.

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By the way... Obama is not even close to being a Nazi. President Obama (like me) is left of center on the political spectrum. The far left extreme is called Communism, the Far right extreme is Fascism. Communism is when absolutely everything is owned by the country as a whole, and the Government is the soul employer and regulator of the land. Fascism is defined as the merging of corporate and state interests which results in a form of completely un-regulated (monopoly) capitalism, and is often, but not always associated with a false sense of racial superiority, and is always associated with class warfare. This means you are actually closer to being a Nazi than President Obama... But I would not accuse you, or the President of being on either extreme of the political spectrum. I may accuse you of being misguided though... Much like the teabaggers who show up at town hall rallies with Medicare cards in their wallets to protest government run healthcare.

It is interesting that in WW2 We were given a choice of the 2 evils, and chose to Alli ourselves with Communists to defeat Fascists.

It's probably a good thing we did, German is a tough language, I don't think you'd succeed if you had to speak it as a 1st language.

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Sunday 20th of September 2009 08:57:25 PM

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Sunday 20th of September 2009 09:20:47 PM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Car insurance is not REQUIRED for people whom dont own a vehicle, so really there is quite a BIG difference. That being the case there is no way you can compare the two.

While I realize there are many different things that need funding (as you have already mentioned) however the government and states get money for increased Tobacco taxes, Income Taxes, Sales taxes, Cell phone taxes and just about every other kind of "Tax" out there. Fuck these greedy little pigs!

A government plan will drive out most all independents. The $100 a month is PER PERSON not PER FAMILY. So if you have a family of 5 the amount would be $500. FUCK THAT BULLSHIT!

There are MANY other ways for this program to work. For the government to mandate a bill for a service like this is just WRONG! Not only will it fail, but it will be a total joke! The people whom are thinking this shit up will rob the fund blind, just like it has been in the past.

There is really nothing good about this plan whatsoever. Currently a single person can get insurance for about $100 per month. Sure it wont be great insurance, but its not until you start adding family members before the cost start spinning out of control.

I understand that you are under the false impression that people are trying to fix it, however we should NEVER forget the following

(1) Obama tried to rush his original CRAP plan past congress saying it was an emergency. If he didnt read it, or felt it was "Good To Go", he was WRONG. Thus he lost his credibility in my and many others eyes.

(2) I feel the Democratic Party propped up old Carter to push their agenda and attempt to play Obama's often used "Race" card, all the while trying to deny it. That doesnt change the fact they tried to plant the seed. I dont care what Carter says! Obama's plan SUCKS and its not because he is black. Trying to use Carter as a puppet to further his agenda whilst trying to make white Americans feel bad is WRONG!

(3) Obama has already spent his wad bailing out companies.

Do the math. According to the census Buru in 2006 there were 225,746,457 Americans over the age of 18 in the USA. Times $100 X 225,746,457 and it = $22,574,645,700. Thats Twenty two billion, five hundred seventy four million, six hundred and forty five thousand, seven hundred dollars a year. And thats only if they apply the $100 a month payment to people over 18 years old.

Its a bad idea and it places a lot of people at risk when the government goes bust the next time. It will only equate to longer waits, less tests, and poor service. Imagine your doctor having a government attitude when it comes to your health. Imagine the take it or leave it, youre lucky to get it, hide behind the government mentality when you are ill.

NO THANKS!

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

So just keep your private insurance then

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

You think its that easy?

Wrong.

They will tax the private companies and better plans will have what equates to a "Luxury" tax.

A government plan would only put private health care plans out of business or WAY out of reach for the average person.

Obama has already messed up by saying he wants a single pay system

That cat is out of the bag, your boy is FOS.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

There will probably be a tax on those "Cadillac" insurance plans that are given to CEO's and cost upward of 40K annually and cover things like cosmetic procedures. I highly doubt you are in one of those plans Rex. When I Say CEO, I'm not talking about small business owners like you. President Obama reiterated his pledge today to not raise taxes on people who make less than 250K. If you have private insurance already, you are exempt from the $100 fee because that applies to people who don't have insurance. And there will be a sliding scale of subsidies (funded by the aforementioned CEO Cadillac plan tax) to help low income people (except illegal aliens) afford coverage... and they don't have to choose the public option. You're trying to make a big issue about something that doesn't even apply to you.
Ideally Single payer universal coverage is something I would prefer, and so would President Obama, but it has already been compromised away.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

YOU LIE!

No one is buying Obama's health care plan. It seems to be making more people sick than anything else.

You need to wake up before its too late. The fact that Obama is making insurance MANDITORY is "Nazi" by definition. The idea behind everyone pitching in regardless of how they feel is socialism.

Obama wont be happy until he see's this country fail. What better way than to kill healthcare insurance companies and start a government program so that everyone is screwed when the country goes bust.

The Americans whom voted for Obama are idiots. Obama will get secret service, top shelf insurance, and government pay checks until the day he dies. Add up how much it really cost America to let this jackass be in power for 4 years. People are so ignorant. They think they can just vote themselves money, cars, insurance and whatever else they want. It doesnt work that way.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Yeah, Hitler forced health insurance on all German citizens, and that's why we remember him as a bad guy.

You are entitled to your own opinions Rex... Not your own facts.

He will get secret service for 10 years after he leaves office, and he will receive the worlds best healthcare for free as long as he wants it. President Obama doesn't need healthcare reform for him... He's not doing this to make his life better, he's doing it to make your life better. In the larger scheme of things this will, though I know you feel somehow violated by it.

Just keep your private insurance if it makes you happy. And let me know when he takes your guns away. He hasn't taken mine yet, and I don't expect he will.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:
And let me know when he takes your guns away. He hasn't taken mine yet, and I don't expect he will.

Oh you just wait. I bet he is saving the BEST for last.

Yes I think that young people should have the say when it comes to health care. If they dont want to carry health insurance then they should not be forced to.

Im sure you dont mind things being forced on you. Give them an inch and they will take a mile.

Just like Obama's Give act, that takes away the freedom of the American kids. Why are the important issues being overlooked? Why are people so effing ignorant? Does this sound like something that belongs in the land of the free?

-- Edited by SELLC on Monday 21st of September 2009 12:21:46 AM

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

I don't think much freedom is being experienced by people going bankrupt over health issues.

The reason for the mandate, is because the only way to force insurance companies to accept people with pre-existing conditions, is to have a risk pool with plenty of healthy people. If there is no mandate, and simultaneously no way for insurance companies to deny people with pre existing conditions, then the young invincibles will only buy insurance if they get really sick with an expensive condition, and then all of the insurance companies will go bankrupt because they will be forced to insure only sick people. This is the reason for the mandate, and I'm sorry you feel as though your freedom is being threatened over this compromise that protect insurance companies and citizens rights.

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Monday 21st of September 2009 12:31:53 AM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Guy, you need to WAKE THE FUCK UP..... Okay?

Private Health Insurance isnt going bankrupt! They have their ways of making sure that everything works out, and how to keep people from jumping on with pre-existing conditions. Obamas answer to pre-existing conditions is a death panel.

I think you have some real thinking to do. Sure if someone goes Bankrupt because they had a big medical expence, that hardly takes away their freedom.

What happens when people start going bankrupt on the Government when they fail to pay their insurance for 4 years, having never been to a doctor, yet having to go bankrupt because of the fines? What then smart ass? Oh yeah, you cant go bankrupt on most Government fines.

Wake up!

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Mkay Rex, I promise to defend your freedom to go bankrupt should you be fortunate enough to get cancer.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Oh I am sure under the new Obama care people wont live long enough to run up the tab. They will likely die waiting to get into the hospital or have a stroke dealing with the bureaucracy. Thats one way to eliminate medical related Bankruptcy! Go Democrats! Hello Socialism!

The new health coverage in a nutshell:

The phone rings and the lady of the house answers: "Hello?"

"May I please speak to Weldon's wife."

"Speaking."

"Hello, this is Dr. Jones at Scripps Laboratory. When your husband's
doctor sent his biopsy to the lab last week, a biopsy from another man
named Weldon arrived as well. We are now uncertain which one belongs to
your husband. Frankly, either way the results are not too good."

"What do you mean?" Weldon's wife asks nervously.

"Well, one of the specimens tested positive for Alzheimer's and the
other one tested positive for HIV. We can't tell which is which."

"That's dreadful! Can you please do the test again?"

"Normally we can, but the new health care system will only pay for these
expensive tests just one time."

''Well, what am I supposed to do now? "

"The folks at Obamacare recommend that you drop your husband off
somewhere in the middle of town. If he finds his way home, don't sleep
with him."

I hope that makes the truth seem a little funny. I dont want to come off as spreading doom and gloom. Since you are going down the Obama Website list of things to call non-supporters I figured I'd beat you to it.

-- Edited by SELLC on Wednesday 23rd of September 2009 12:06:48 AM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:

Mkay Rex, I promise to defend your freedom to go bankrupt should you be fortunate enough to get cancer.

YOU LIE!!!

What freedom is there in a mandate? Especially a Federal Government Mandate!

You can go Bankrupt on the Federal Government!

Once again,

YOU AND YOUR PARTY LIE!!!

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

You still have the right to not buy insurance, its just that soon there will be a fine for not doing so. It's only like 700 bucks a year for the fine, which is a lot cheaper than health insurance, enjoy it.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

It's ONLY like $700 bucks a month to have a free choice? WTF Is that PowerStroker?

$700 a month might be cheeper than insurance, however whats the fine print got to say about someone who doesnt pay the $700? Do they still get medical treatment? Or will the Dr. tell them to come back after they have paid their "Fines" which at that point may total up to the REAL amount of $1500+? All this because you needed a $75 checkup at your regular Dr. to ensure everything was okay.

The ONLY people that will benifite from this are the folks whom are UN-INSURABLE. Meanwhile all the healthy people can pay for the luxury of keeping good health.

PowerStroker, I agree the idea of getting everyone insurance is a good thing, however loosing our rights, being fined for keeping good health and the government taking over healthcare outweigh the good, thus making it BAD.

Whats next? Is the FDIC going to take over ALL the banks, start making private loans to individuals, start issuing credit cards? Will there be a $700 a month fee if you choose to opt-out of the new banking plan?

You know this plan violates our CORE principals that founded America. This plan reminds me of someone who wants to come off as giving a gift, yet expecting something in return for the "Gift". Thats Obama-Care for you. YES WE CAN! "CHANGE" the kind that jingles in your pocker!

READ MY LIPS! NO NEW FINES!

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

SELLC wrote:

It's ONLY like $700 bucks a month to have a free choice? WTF Is that PowerStroker?

Free choice is kind of like free speech... I always though free speech was supposed to be free, but Republicans have used the justification of "free speech" as an excuse to allow corporations to shovel hundreds of millions of dollars annually into the pockets of our politicians and drown out the voices of regular working class people in our government.

$700 a month might be cheeper than insurance, however whats the fine print got to say about someone who doesnt pay the $700? Do they still get medical treatment? Or will the Dr. tell them to come back after they have paid their "Fines" which at that point may total up to the REAL amount of $1500+? All this because you needed a $75 checkup at your regular Dr. to ensure everything was okay.

Now you're getting paranoid that the doctors are going to care who pays them, and that they are somehow linked in with the IRS and will check to make sure you filed your taxes correctly before treating you. Cash will always be good at any doctor, and in my experience they usually prefer cash instead of dealing with an insurance company.
The ONLY people that will benifite from this are the folks whom are UN-INSURABLE. Meanwhile all the healthy people can pay for the luxury of keeping good health.
We already pay for it, and we will pay less when we have to stop subsidizing all of the uninsured sick people with tax increases when those people use the ER for "free"

PowerStroker, I agree the idea of getting everyone insurance is a good thing, however loosing our rights, being fined for keeping good health and the government taking over healthcare outweigh the good, thus making it BAD.

The fine only applies if you don't purchase any health insurance, it has nothing to do with your actual health. And this bill also includes a sliding scale of government subsidies to make health insurance more affordable based on your income. It's not a Government takeover of health insurance, but as part of the bill there will be created a new government run insurance company to compete with the for profit companies for your business. The individual mandate clause doesn't say you have to buy the government plan, just that you buy some kind of plan unless you want to pay a fine. And yes, you can use your government subsidy to make your current plan more affordable if you don't want to buy the public option. Either way, the individual mandate will get much more of the population to at least buy some kind of coverage, this will diversify the risk pool and lower prices for everyone. We are the ONLY industrialized country who doesn't already do this, and as a result we pay twice what any other country pays for health care, and with worse results.
Whats next? Is the FDIC going to take over ALL the banks, start making private loans to individuals, start issuing credit cards? Will there be a $700 a month fee if you choose to opt-out of the new banking plan?

The FDIC doesn't make loans, it only insures your deposits in case your bank goes belly up. I think you would agree that is a good thing. If the US treasury would offer consumer loans and compete with private banks I would view that as a good thing, but I doubt it will happen. There is no reason for any kind of fee if you don't want to use any bank services because your individual choice not to buy a house or car ect doesn't affect me or my taxes at all. If you refuse to purchase health insurance, yet rely on free care from the ER which is supported by my taxes, then we have a problem. Do you see the difference there Rex?

You know this plan violates our CORE principals that founded America. This plan reminds me of someone who wants to come off as giving a gift, yet expecting something in return for the "Gift". Thats Obama-Care for you. YES WE CAN! "CHANGE" the kind that jingles in your pocker!

READ MY LIPS! NO NEW FINES!

Do you have health insurance Rex? If you do, you will not face any fines, this bill will only reduce your costs.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:

SELLC wrote:

Free choice is kind of like free speech... I always though free speech was supposed to be free, but Republicans have used the justification of "free speech" as an excuse to allow corporations to shovel hundreds of millions of dollars annually into the pockets of our politicians and drown out the voices of regular working class people in our government.

My..My.. PowerStroker.. What you speak of is

Bureaucracy: As a matter of practicality, the bureaucracy is where the individual will interface with an organization such as a government etc., rather than directly with its leadership. Generally, larger organizations result in a greater distancing of the individual from the leadership, which can be consequential or intentional by design.

I think you are starting to see the light!

Now you're getting paranoid that the doctors are going to care who pays them, and that they are somehow linked in with the IRS and will check to make sure you filed your taxes correctly before treating you. Cash will always be good at any doctor, and in my experience they usually prefer cash instead of dealing with an insurance company.

Once a Doctors/Hospitals become a bureaucracy you will soon be talking like your post above. Cash will no longer be good to the doctors/hospitals. And imagine if you switched jobs and were unemployed for two months, that will trigger a bill, so you will have to call in and deal with the bureaucracy one way or another. Soon everyone will work for the government because they will be the only ones exempt from regular procedure. Even Auto company insurance will be known as ghetto poor man insurance compared to government officials.
We already pay for it, and we will pay less when we have to stop subsidizing all of the uninsured sick people with tax increases when those people use the ER for "free"

The people using the ER for must feel they need emergency care, or they would not be there. Under this new plan that will change.

The fine only applies if you don't purchase any health insurance, it has nothing to do with your actual health. And this bill also includes a sliding scale of government subsidies to make health insurance more affordable based on your income. It's not a Government takeover of health insurance, but as part of the bill there will be created a new government run insurance company to compete with the for profit companies for your business. The individual mandate clause doesn't say you have to buy the government plan, just that you buy some kind of plan unless you want to pay a fine. And yes, you can use your government subsidy to make your current plan more affordable if you don't want to buy the public option. Either way, the individual mandate will get much more of the population to at least buy some kind of coverage, this will diversify the risk pool and lower prices for everyone. We are the ONLY industrialized country who doesn't already do this, and as a result we pay twice what any other country pays for health care, and with worse results.
I still dont accept a government mandate when it comes to choosing health insurance. I will never agree with it. Its a non-starter for me. The fine is also something I wont get behind either. Obama and his administration have more work to do, other countries are finding better ways of funding their insurance. Charging/Taxing/Fines on a per person bassis is not acceptable. Forcing people to buy something just because they are a citizen isnt either.

The FDIC doesn't make loans, it only insures your deposits in case your bank goes belly up. I think you would agree that is a good thing. If the US treasury would offer consumer loans and compete with private banks I would view that as a good thing, but I doubt it will happen. There is no reason for any kind of fee if you don't want to use any bank services because your individual choice not to buy a house or car ect doesn't affect me or my taxes at all. If you refuse to purchase health insurance, yet rely on free care from the ER which is supported by my taxes, then we have a problem. Do you see the difference there Rex?

No I dont see the diffrence there PowerStroker. I do see the coralation between what you are saying and this big banking and insurance company bail out. Smaller business like the auto company just got taken over, why not give the rest to the government, right? You dont think the big banking bail out wont raise them taxes? People defalting on home loans didint raise your taxes? I mean these are individual choices that have made an impact on you. So now you are saying "Lets take out the choice"? Might as well quit working too, live on 11K per year and enjoy the perks! America is heading in the WRONG direction.

Do you have health insurance Rex? If you do, you will not face any fines, this bill will only reduce your costs.
I plead the 5th.. There is not a fine for that yet is there? Pretty soon there will be. If you dont get it by now PowerStroker, I dont know what else I can say.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.^{[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution}

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Ah yes, you surprise me Rex. Here I thought I had you pegged as one of the guys who would be thumping the 10th ammendment... I call them "tenthers" or "teabaggers." But your section is just as valid. I would think the "just compensation" would be the satisfaction of knowing you are contributing to a greater good.

Well, once the president and I finally succeed in transforming this country, you might actually like it. And if not, well, I can live with that.

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Friday 6th of November 2009 02:51:29 PM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

I think this "Change" you speak of will amount to Obama loosing his 2nd term, and us having to "Change" it all back to the way its always been.

One only need to look at what happend in Virgina to see the writing on the wall. I encourage you and your demorcratic friends to live it up, because it doesnt look like its going to last.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

For the past 9 election cycles Virginia has always chosen a governor in the opposit party of the president. Virginia was no surprise. New Jersey was kind of a surprise though. I liked Governor Corzine even back when he was a US senator. I never thought a liberal state like New Jersey would go Republican, but to each their own I guess. What I did enjoy watching was New York's 23rd district congressional race that had pretty much been a Republican seat for decades, but this time the Republicans couldn't agree on 1 candidate and split their votes between the two allowing the Dem to win, that was awesome.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

What pisses me off is the fact that I didnt get any notice there was a vote. I know my kids had the day off, but my Republican buddies did not send me the memo so I could give my support. Guess they dont love me anymore.

If I was a Democrat, well I would have been called by Accorn, hell they would have sent a bus for me. But now that I think about it, I feel cheated.

Im such a fucking putz.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

I dont think there was any election of any consequence in Michigan Rex, these were special elections. I'm sure your Republican friends will remind you to vote next year.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

There were elections that I missed out on. They will be of consequence to most people living in Michigan.

I missed out.