The estimated deficit for 2018 was around 1.4 trillion...it came in at a little over HALF that around 779 billion...

But yes the immediate is a higher deficit the long term the deficit reduces due to additional revenue...

We have always run a deficit...

It seems it is okay when the left is spending too much creating a deficit...

but if the right cuts taxes it is OMG the world is going to end...

you keep going on about your withholding, are you too stupid to realize you PAID less in taxes in 2018...

If your employer did not properly withhold take that up with them....my employer had no problem making the correct adjustments to my withholding...

They should cut taxes EVEN MORE....

In truth we should not be paying more than 10% of our earnings in taxes...

Then FORCE government to adjust spending to the revenue 10% generates...

The biggest cuts should come in the way of congressional pay cuts...

We have not gotten Congress to balance a budget in how many years now?

AND you honestly with a straight face think Congress will cut spending prior to tax cuts???

ROFLMAO

I don't believe that ^ has ever really worked, our current and ever expanding national debt is evidence to that fact. There's always a shiny new war to fight, or a shiny new wall to build that is always financed by debt. Until such things are ended, the notion of cutting taxes to 10% is laughable, at least a true fiscal hawk would think so.

The whole "starve the beast until it's small enough to drown in a bathtub" theory simply won't work. It's been tried many times though.

PowerStroker wrote:

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The private sector is building part of it, and President Trump has diverted several billion dollars from the Military toward building the rest - that's the part I have a problem with.

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The question is WHY is there a problem with a border wall to secure our border where border control says the need is real?

JUST BECAUSE DEMOCRATS ARE AGAINST IT????

Anyone who enters and tries to by pass vetting and screening is a criminal...drugs, human trafficking, diseases (several dormant diseases are making a comeback in the US due to illegal immigration)

but you will oppose a border wall simply because you dislike Donald Trump....

YOU'RE FUCKING PATHETIC....

LMAO

Reagan did a lot of damage, but that's water under the bridge. If Congress appropriates wall funding, then the president gets to spend it on a wall, but to do so before Congress specifically appropriates the money is against the Constitution. If Illegality is truly the reason you want a border wall, then I suggest building one legally if you want to maintain any illusion of moral superiority. Though I for one am under no such illusion.

PowerStroker wrote:

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The private sector is building part of it, and President Trump has diverted several billion dollars from the Military toward building the rest - that's the part I have a problem with.

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 You have that backwards. Trump did not divert from the military and pentagon, they found the money and diverted it to him.

You have a problem with that money being used for national security but no problem govt funds planned parenthood. Meanwhile they will donate $500 mil to the dem campaign. If they have that kind of money laying around why do we have to fund them? Sure they play a word game that money is not used for abortions, bullshit the money is all in a pot. Rob Peter to pay Paul

Planned Parenthood has consistently maintained that federal money received by Planned Parenthood is not used to fund abortion services, but pro-life activists have argued that the federal funding frees up other resources that are, in turn, used to provide abortions.

PowerStroker wrote:

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To your first point, any surplus that a department receives must be returned to the Treasury for Congress to decide its fate.

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Money appropriated to the department of defense can be spent anyway the department wishes to spend it...If they want to build walls with it they can...

You are now REACHING to try and make nothing into something...

While you would be correct money not appropriated by Congress can not be used...

money appropriated by Congress can be...Congress does not approve at a line item level NEVER HAS...

The limitation is it can be no more than appropriated by congress...and money diverted takes away from the overall department budget...

They were SMART...they pulled the money from the department of defense...

It is hysterically funny because it pisses off DEMOCRATS...

PowerStroker wrote:

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To your first point, any surplus that a department receives must be returned to the Treasury for Congress to decide its fate.

 Point is TRUMP DID NOT DIVERT IT as you claimed, liberal spin, deception as usual. 

Show me a department has ever returned money. They go on major spending sprees and get rid of it being afraid they will get less next time.

Maybe Military and Pentagon feel is is necessary for national security so off it goes instead of return it or a spending spree

SELLC wrote:

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It can't be cheap having the national guard and the military at the border all the time...

So I think there is ample justification for their use of money to build the wall... 

Thing is, had Democrats just worked with Trump he had a plan to get a great deal on the wall in bulk! Even had companies lining up and setting up samples of their walls. But Democrats screwed that up real good.

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 Exactly, anyone but a dem would understand that. The department is spending the money where they deem it necessary, not giving it to Trump but the security of the US.

Better than spending sprees, here is one example of what happens under "use or lose"

What was purchased?

Some of the highlights include a Wexford Leather club chair ($9,241), china tableware ($53,004), alcohol ($308,994), golf carts ($673,471), musical equipment including pianos, tubas, and trombones ($1.7 million), lobster tail and crab ($4.6 million), iPhones and iPads ($7.7 million), and workout and recreation equipment ($9.8 million). $818.1 million was spent on guns, ammo and bombs, $490.6 million on furniture and $462 million on PR and marketing.

https://www.fedsmith.com/2019/03/08/report-analyzes-agencies-use-lose-spending-sprees/

Here is one from Forbes

Adam Andrzejewski

Senior Contributor

Policy

In total, the Pentagon admits to purchasing $25 million in lobster tail and crab over the past 18-months. Lobster served on plate photo credit: Getty

 GETTY

For federal agencies, Christmas comes in September.

In the final month of the fiscal year, federal agencies scramble to spend whats left in their annual budgets. Agencies worry that spending a smaller amount than Congress appropriated this year might mean theyll receive less money next year.

So, rather than admit the department could run efficiently on a smaller budget, federal agencies embark on a shopping spree. This is the use it or lose it spending phenomenon and it happens every year on the taxpayer dime.

Our OpenTheBooks oversight report on the fiscal year 2018 use-it-or-lose-it spending spree quantified $97 billion in contracts signed during the month of September.

 

In the final seven days of the year, federal agencies blew through $53 billion in contracts thats $1 in $10 of all contract spending on the year, in the final week.

The problem isnt new and it isnt going away. In fact, its getting worse. Our report shows a 15 percent increase in use-it-or-lose-it contracts from last year to this year. From 2015, thats a 39 percent increase.

Here are ten ways the government spent your tax dollars in last years use-it-or-lose-it spending spree:

• $26.8 million at Trumps Executive Office of the President  In the final month of fiscal year 2018, President Donald Trumps office signed 16 contracts, purchasing office furniture, passenger vehicles, cameras, newspaper subscriptions, and more. From 2015 to 2018, there was a 60-percent increase in use-it-or-lose-it spending by the office of the president.

• Millions of dollars on Crab and Lobster  As the fiscal year wrapped up, federal agencies celebrated by splurging on luxury food items. The Department of Defense (DOD) originally reported spending $2.3 million on snow crab, Alaskan king crab, and crab legs and claws, plus another $2.3 million on lobster tail. Additionally, agencies spent nearly $300,000 on steak (ribeye, top sirloin, and flank).

  However, the DOD just admitted to inflated disclosures. Their updated numbers reveal lobster and crab purchases amounted to $1.6 million in September 2018 and $25.4 million during an 18-month period. We have additional questions for the agency. Here is a video showing our data download and quantification of $2.3 million (Sept 2018) and $22.1 million (FY2018) in lobster tail purchases as reported by the DOD to the federal government's official transparency portal at USAspending.gov.

• $491 Million to Redecorate  In the final month of fiscal year 2018, federal agencies signed nearly 10,000 contracts to purchase furniture. Notably, the Department of Defense spent $9,341 on a Wexford leather club chair.
• More than $300,000 on Booze  For some agencies, the end of the fiscal year seems to be one big party. The Department of Defense and the Department of State purchased beer, wine, and whiskey. Contract recipients included Coors Brewing Company ($76,173); E&J Gallo Winery ($16,510), and more.
• More Than $800 Million to Load the Gun Locker  Fifteen agencies made last-minute purchases of guns, ammunition, and other weaponry during the final month of the fiscal year. Even non-military agencies including the Department of Veterans Affairs, the Office of Personnel Management, the Small Business Administration, and the Environmental Protection Agency bought more than $100,000 in guns and ammunition. 
• $9.8 Million on Workout Equipment and Recreation  Federal agencies must have set new fitness goals when they spent $462,791 on treadmills and dumbbells and $22,505 on CrossFit equipment. Spending tax dollars is all fun and games according to the $1.2 million agencies spent on playground equipment, $50,000 on skis and ski poles, and $12,000 on a foosball table. 
• $462 Million Self Promotion Machine  Federal agencies spent millions on public relations, marketing research and public opinion, communications, and advertising in the final month of fiscal year 2018. The feds already employ 5,000 public affairs officers. It wasnt enough.
• Nearly $300 Million on Transportation  Federal agencies drove up taxpayer costs, signing nearly 3,000 transportation-related contracts in the final month of fiscal year 2018. Agencies purchased passenger vehicles from Navistar Defense, Ford Motor Company, and General Motors. Additionally, the government purchased nontraditional vehicles including golf carts, motorcycles, and snowmobiles.
• $7.7 Million on iPhones and iPads  Federal employees were sure to update their cell phones before the fiscal year ended, contracting with AT&T, Apple, and T-Mobile. These purchases included iPads at Veterans Affairs, cellular data at the Department of Defense, and a bulk order of iPhone 8s and blackberry replacements. The Department of State spent $107,097 on Apples latest iPhone X and screen protectors.
• $49 Million on Miscellaneous Spending  The federal agencies last-minute shopping spree purchases range from batteries and books, to toys and tableware. Using the purchasing schedules of the General Services Administration, the Army and Navy spent $53,000 on china tableware; the Army Recruiting Command purchased $42,500 on inflatable games; and the Air Force Junior ROTC spent $34,000 on model rockets.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2019/03/11/ten-ways-president-trumps-agencies-spent-100b-in-a-use-it-or-lose-it-shopping-spree-in-sept-2018/#773c0a3b2c43

Very interesting Shawnee!

That is some serious coin they are blowing thru! But it's not like they get to keep any of it...

Interesting that they like seafood more than beef, I'd have thought that they would have had more in the ways of tenderloins and premium cuts. Guess with them all working an office job they probably like them runny BM's because they are easier to wipe than soft sticky beef droppings that seemingly use endless toilet paper and always seem to eject a little stinker well after you wipe. 

Also interesting is that the brands of booze they buy, E&J is the same people who make Boones Farm wine - and while my youth was filled with pleasurable memories from Boones Farm - it's about the most economical booze out there and generally taste good to many. 

But it's a lot of money to regular people who are budgeting for themselves on $30,000 in income without all the fancy perks from their jobs... I like to think my job has it's perks, not $28.6 million in lobster - but then again I am not feeding the most powerful nations insiders either. That is a lot of lobster, which means a lot of people! I'd be more interested in knowing if this lobster was sourced locally and if so I would feel a whole lot better knowing that at least it just got put back into the mix.

Right now President Trump is being wooed by the biggest show-boats in history, the English! These people are fanatics, much like the dictators he probably has to deal with on a daily basis - but when it comes to the Crown they go beyond wrapping everything in gold, they have fancy stones, dress and castles! A guy like Trump could really start to get used to that kind of lifestyle, where the many serve the needs of the few. 

I am almost 100% positive he is making deals and three steps ahead of any given scraps of information we get fed - but his aggression and ego are something that have gotten him to where he is at today. The question is, can he survive if everyone else takes this same approach to life? Compassion does not seem to be in his DNA and most of his donations are made with expectations of favors or "strings" attached, as he admitted himself on many occasion. I suspect people like him for his brutal honesty because we all struggle to get by every day and feel the same at times one way or another. 

One thing is for sure, with all this lavishness in government right now he should be able to get some pretty good people to do some really great things! Providing they remember who they work for, and keep us all safe and wealthy enough to waste countless hours on the internet bitching about it - I can only have faith that my fellow American will reciprocate. Democrats aren't the only idiots walking these streets! LOL

PowerStroker wrote:

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Shawnee_B wrote:

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 Point is TRUMP DID NOT DIVERT IT as you claimed, liberal spin, deception as usual. 

Show me a department has ever returned money. They go on major spending sprees and get rid of it being afraid they will get less next time.

Maybe Military and Pentagon feel is is necessary for national security so off it goes instead of return it or a spending spree

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Then I suppose it's possible under the next Democratic president, the military and Pentagon will feel necessary to divert an even bigger chunk of their budget toward fighting climate change, poverty relief, clean energy tax credits, healthcare subsidies, and student debt forgiveness? 

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Wednesday 5th of June 2019 09:13:42 PM

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DOUBTFUL...

While it is more than reasonable the department of defense might give up some of its appropriation for border security.

It is HIGHLY unlikely the EPA will give up any of theirs to combat climate change, they want our money for that....lol

The spending spree's are damn near criminal as in most cases it is pure waste...but it is a byproduct of our budgetary process.

Due to how we set up appropriations, departments are forced to USE up all previously appropriated funds or face mandatory cuts.

It is more than use it or lose it...it is use it or lose it and get less next year as well.

"

"Ten Ways President Trump's Agencies Spent $100B In A Use-It-Or-Lose-It Shopping Spree In Sept 2018"

The problem with that statement is it makes it sound like it is specific to Trump Agencies in 2018...when in fact this ritual has gone on every year under every president in my lifetime...

It is commonly done every year before the new fiscal year begins...

and it is the pure definition of why nothing the government does is cost effective....EVER 

PowerStroker wrote:

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You guys seem to think the Military volunteered to do this, it's more like they were ordered to. It's probably not enough money to buy a Carrier, but probably an attack Sub. Do you really think the top brass would rather have a wall than add to the fleet? If you open this Pandora's box, don't be surprised if several departments are ordered to "volunteer" their surplus to fund ultra liberal pet projects in the future in a manner circumventing Congress.

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 The Defense Department has identified $12.8 billion in possible funding that it could use to fulfill President Trump's call for a border wall.

Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., released the 20-page spreadsheet on Twitter Monday night.

Trump last month declared a national emergency at the border, and said he wants to use $3.6 billion for border wall projects. The Pentagon's list said it has found possible funding sources that are "in excess of the amount needed."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/pentagon-finds-12-8-billion-for-trumps-border-wall

Pentagon Finds $12.8 Billion to Fund Trumps Border Wall

 

Posted by Mary Chastain    Tuesday, March 19, 2019 at 11:00am

PowerStroker wrote:

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You guys seem to think the Military volunteered to do this, it's more like they were ordered to. It's probably not enough money to buy a Carrier, but probably an attack Sub. Do you really think the top brass would rather have a wall than add to the fleet? If you open this Pandora's box, don't be surprised if several departments are ordered to "volunteer" their surplus to fund ultra liberal pet projects in the future in a manner circumventing Congress.

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It would be the Secretary of Defense a person appointed by the president.

NOT the "MILITARY" you use the term to suit YOUR narrative that it was "ORDERED" by Trump.

Perhaps it was simply requested and responded to differently than you wanted.

What Trump has done incredibly well in his first 2+ years is play the democrats into exposing their true colors on many issues.

but he is rearranging the global economy in a way that protects the last bastion of free enterprise on the planet.

The USA has massive buying power and Trump is getting the US compensated for the privilege of providing goods and services for our economy.

I do not like many things about Donald Trump...but this one makes me not care about the other issues...as they are for the most part PETTY and what he is accomplishing in trade negotiation is IMPORTANT.