"The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has told automakers it doesnt need to allow access by anyone wireless access to vehicles in order to diagnose and repair certain problems."

First of all, it's not a correctly structured sentence with the word "access" used twice. And secondly, It just says wireless access isn't required, It doesn't say people can't plug in their own scan tool to the DLC... You know, like I have to at the dealership. Even the fancy dealership equipment I have access to doesn't "wirelessly" access anything, so I'm not sure exactly what the author of this article is talking about.

The thing I plug into the DLC does communicate wirelessly to my laptop, but I still have to plug something into the DLC. We have an aftermarket tool at the dealership too that also functions much the same way. I can't access any car wirelessly without physically plugging something in first.

With regard to service information like module software downloads, OE scan tools, and workshop manuals... All of this is available for purchase at motorcraftservice.com for non dealership customers. It's not free, but there's no reason for it to be free. So I really don't know what the guy who wrote the article is bitching about. He's free to pay up and access the same things I do anytime he wants.

It looks like a nonsense article designed to get people worked up over nothing.

I only work on Fords. Are you saying Tesla doesn't have a standard 16 pin diagnostic port? The Mustang Mach E does, and so does the new Lightning electric F150.

All Ford dealer level service information, special tools, and diagnostic software is available for purchase right here: https://www.motorcraftservice.com/

My dealership had to pay for this stuff, and if you want it, so do you.

Dealerships pay monthly subscriptions for all of these things, including online parts catalog access. If it's not even free for a dealership that already paid millions for a franchise agreement, then it's not going to be free for you either. None of this is Biden's fault or even a new policy.

If you only need access occasionally, you can buy 72 hour access for $22.

https://www.motorcraftservice.com/Home/Pricing

When I needed OE schematics for my Honda CR-V I simply paid for a short term subscription. I never once thought such things should be free. It's the cost of doing business.

Doesn't your BF run the NHTSA, PowerStroker? 

I'm just saying... the article is from a credible news desk and you're trying to say it's BS? 

I know a Union guy like you who works for the dealership don't think much of it with your occasional little subscriptions to AllData or whatever, but for the repair shop it's often included with your local parts suppliers online parts ordering system... AllData for AutoZone and Mitchells for Oreilly... Just so you know!

But that has nothing to do with the fact that this will be abused and President Biden and your BF at the NHTSA need to take steps to prevent that for the hard working Americans who make a living fixing things outside of warranty... Nobody is saying that new car warranties shouldn't be dealer preferred, but in some cases (rare) there is a need. 

I'm not going to get into the DPS6 transmission, and I'm not going to bring up the Ford Pinto... I think we can both agree that dead horse has been beat long enough! I'm just saying $9.6 BILLION DOLLARS PowerStroker! Better get your battery lift/cart ready! They be coming!

I did read the article, and his link was for a story about providing law enforcement with GPS tracking location data on a Volkswagen, and NOTHING to do with repairing a vehicle. Which is why I'm confused about how the author is associating it with right to repair. Especially since even dealerships can't even access location data, or crash data for that matter.

Most dealerships are hiring. If you want access to OE service information and equipment at no cost to you, the door is wide open. Whatever Biden's executive order was (if one exists) is probably perfectly reasonable and within the confines of the law. If Congress wants to overrule it, they have a process for doing so. Call your Michigan Congressman and tell him you want Congress to force auto makers to provide you unlimited free intellectual property so that you can profit from it, see how that goes over. My guess is it will go over like a fart in church, no matter which party he belongs to. 

The proper business practice for someone like you, would be to charge a $25 service information access fee to any of your customers that require you to purchase a short term subscription for OE information to fix their car. Then there is no intellectual property theft, and you aren't losing any money.

Right to repair is about making things available to the public, not necessarily making them free. You still have to pay to play, and this was true long before Biden took over.

The author of the article didn't link to any supporting info about Biden's executive order, just some news story about a stolen Volkswagen tracking incident and somehow tied that to right to repair for no other purpose than to get certain people riled up. Unless and until you or the author can tell me specifically how Biden wronged you here, I'm calling bullshit. The author's strategy is one of a propagandist, not a journalist. There are many similarities with how Fox and RT present "news" too.

I expected better from you than to be so easily manipulated.

PowerStroker said...

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Call your Michigan Congressman and tell him you want Congress to force auto makers to provide you unlimited free intellectual property so that you can profit from it...
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Yo, much-much better to sign the petition to stop the reopening of the closed Palisades Nuke-plant...



Stellar said...
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My livelihood depends on it, so I'm not so quick to dismiss it like a Union guy working for a Ford Dealership would... Remember PowerStroker, I don't just work on Fords!
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You're likely to be retired before all these vehicles come-to-the-door, if you both make-it that-far-down-the-road lol ! And PowerStroker did offer you a job-opportunity to investigate...

Sign the Palisades petition if you haven't already, as you'll be helping save countless lives, including your own !

SELLC wrote:

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1. I'm already getting Hybrids in... won't be long until the electrics are here! 

2. (a) You seem to forget, I'm tide to this company until in my 70's -- if I make it that long ! (b) That's almost 22 years from now ! (c) I'll for sure be seeing these cars in about 5-10 years from now... maybe sooner !

3. I'm quite happy with my opportunities as an independent and PowerStrokers offerings were unsolicited ! 

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R1. Bummer...

R2. (a&b) You may make it Stellar...Should you survive your first major heart-attack, you'll get your act together quick-smart...(c) I tend to think that since the electric-cars are a scam, they'll come & go quicker than smart-phones do...This means you won't have to repair them, since they'll be scrapped before they get to you.

* Should the "free-energy" devices be made available, you'll be able to drive a regular car around on water...Or if you still like the electric option, recharge for free...In fact, there's a prototype running around that only needs 1-charge-up for life, since it has 4 x generators attached within each wheel-hub keeping the battery full, & running the car once going.

R3. PowerStroker's suggestion allows you to keep working & earning a regular income...Good advice for those who may need some.

SELLC wrote:

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Pfft...

Screw the dealership! I'm thinking of getting a part time job at the Palisades Nuke plant! Pay is WAY better!

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LOL !

Palisades will give you much more for free than just a pay-check...And if / when things-turn-to-shyte, you won't need one-of-Musk's Space-X rockets to go flying through space yo...

Part of the problem now is that there is way too much information to share across 1 CAN network. A modern Ford for example will have 3 separate High speed Can Networks, a FDCAN (super high speed), 2 medium speed CAN networks, an Ethernet network, and a few LIN networks. With the exception of the LIN's which can't be accessed with any scan tool, the others are still accessed through the 16 pin "OBD 2" style port. How is it possible to access that many networks when there aren't even that many pins in the DLC? Well, it used to be that Ford used the Instrument Cluster and Sync Modules as gateways that allow data sharing between different networks. That way if you needed to access codes or datastream from a network that wasn't wired into the DLC, the requested data would be routed through one of those 2 modules that were. Now things have gotten more complicated... The Data link connector is now its own computer where all of the networks (except LIN's) go into it, and the 16 pin DLC is a part of it the actual gateway module. The newest versions of said gateway module even allow for over the air software updates directly from Ford, and manage the download and updates of the modules feeding into it.

Back in the old days (1980's) you would have break-out-boxes to check live data in the form of voltages or resistances. 

I'm thinking the OBD-III would obviously be a big part of this new DLC computer... I swear they have a module for everything now days and it's only going to get worse with self drive technologies and the likes. 

I was reading that some of your ultra-high end cars today are packing over 70 modules! That's a whole lot of chips!

Rastus wrote:

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* Someone with a big back-yard, who doesn't mind junk everywhere, will have a back-up car for parts.

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Are there any names that come to mind Rastus? I let out an audible gasp when I read that.

Anyway, I have one here now with a cracked heater hose fitting... what used to be a 5/8 hose and a few 5/8 hose clamps is now some fancy 90 degree plastic connector that splits off into three for the rear heater supply line... and of course it's well under the firewall, with compression tabs to release them... fun-fun... almost as fun as that Cadillac SRX I did the other day that required the door removal to replace the door wireharness after the wires started splitting from 128k worth of door openings and closings.

I don't mind it so much, because a lot of people know a few grand spent with me is much better than $60-$100 grand they would spend on a new one that will only be MORE expensive to fix in 10 years, if at all because they no longer sell the part at the dealership or in the aftermarket.

PowerStroker wrote:

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Back to the original topic. I've done a little research and while Ford is (for now) keeping with the OBD2 style connector in everything, several EV manufacturers aren't, and it's not because of Biden, it's because the requirement to have an OBD2 style connector is based on a regulation to standardize the diagnostics of emissions control systems. Whereas EV's are zero emission vehicles, they are by definition exempt from the existing regulation. This is how Tesla gets away with it, they have never produced anything but zero emission vehicles so they can come up with their own proprietary everything.

If Congress wants to extend the generic OBD2 standards to all cars regardless of emissions status, I'd support that, I imagen Biden might too, but Congress would have to start this process.

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This is exactly what I have been saying all along!

No PowerStroker! That was just the title of the article that I found on the internet!

This thread title is phrased as a question, although I notice the question mark is missing... it's really the ONLY article that addresses this issue right now, besides this one!

Amazon has lots of Tesla diagnostic options, and they are cheap.

The author of the article should do some basic research before bloviating his anti-Biden propaganda. 

Well maybe you should write a letter to the author? I simpily asked the question, and your answer is duly noted!

I'm not saying it's Biden's fault, no more than it was Trump or Obama's fault when the Tesla was introduced and picked up steam! I'm just saying maybe someone should look into that?

You know damn well it's not the $20 for the connector that I am worried about -- rather this idea that car manufactures can move away from allowing a unified protocol for access to live data WHILE THE CAR IS PRESENT AND IN FOR SERVICE. 

The point you make regarding live wireless access is fair enough, however the manufactures do monitor LIVE DATA... Tesla was one of the first to do this! Live updates and such for the self-drive and such. 

It's VERY important the aftermarket has GOOD access to these systems for when they do reach the aftermarket -- AND THEY WILL! Unlike what Rastus suggest about them being "throw-away" I'd seriously doubt that! They still have suspension, axles, lights, windows, wheels, brakes and powertrains that go bad and will need fixing at a rate that a dealership cannot keep up with... already word on the street is GM is doing a lot of Tesla warranty work -- although unofficialy. But a lot of these new electric cars arent even 10 years old yet, but I am already getting Hybird vehicles in for service now... and they have 300,000+ miles on them and still going. Even when the battery goes out, there will be a demand and someone will come along and offer an aftermarket alternative that is reasonably priced -- much like how expensive ANY part is on a vehicle less than five years old. The aftermarket don't even really dig in until the 5th year and it's usually almost 7 years old before anything is identified as a problem and in demand enough to even bother making. 

I'm not sure where Rastus gets this idea that people are going to throw away cars, but outside of an electric car style cash for clunkers over 10 years old, people are going to fix them. 

We need access to ALL THIS STUFF because its VERY important that I can find a bad sensor, or a bad battery cell -- or anything else that has to do with a CAN network of computers! I'm not suggesting LIVE data, just a unified protocol for the aftermarket to work with in the interest of our "Rights to repair!" while the vehicle is in for service! This applies to dealerships too, who often take in other brands on trade to re-sell on their own lots! It's just common sense for the times we are in!

If it as PowerStroker suggest, that "it ain't his fault"... well, why not take up the matter and get something moving in that direction? It might not be his fault (because the author failed to give a link) but I can tell you even without that link -- I have seen what the industry is trying to do here and it's NOT moving towards a responsible, let alone UNIFIED direction. The direction I see it going is car manufactures making every aspect of your vehicle a subscription, from your windows to your HVAC, to your stereo --- EVERYTHING... They plan on doing this remotely -- over that LIVE private manufacture network you don't seem to think is a big deal... 

I think it's a serious problem! I think it's more serious than you realize! In fact, I think it could have huge implications on your job if Fords could just use AI on their networks to automate every single process of a warranty job - schedual it - test and identify the problem wirelessly and fire people like you and the service writers who didn't even see it coming! Sure, you could get a job working for an independent and fighting the good fight -- but you could just as easily say "You know, regardless who's fault this is the buck needs to stop at Biden's desk because we know if Trump gets in there he isn't going to give a sh!t!" right now and save yourself the embarrassment. 

IIRC, the UAW (Ford and GM) are in negotiations right now... they could be striking next!

I mean, who knows... maybe if the sh!t get's harry with GM and Fords and they strike and need Ferderal help it could be rolled into that... Fords just got shy of $10 billion to make a new battery plant.

There is lots of oppertunity here for a win!