To this day, opinion polls show that a surprising number of Americans (including Rex) wrongly believe Saddam was the mastermind behind 911. I am of the opinion that such people are idiots whom are driven by their emotions and not fact.
He was an asshole sure, but he had no part in planning or carrying out 911. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong with a link to a credible news article from a respected mainstream media outlet that proves otherwise.
Got it Rex? I'm not looking for a shopping list of all of Saddam's atrocities, or a link to a right wing infotainment cesspool. I'm looking for credible proof of his involvement in the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States from a non-partisan credible news outlet... Something from the NEWS DESK at CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, BBC, AP, NY Times, or Washington Post. If there is any truth to a connection, one of the aforementioned news outlets will have something on it. Opinion commentators don't count, nor do faux news or infotainment purveyors.
So PowerStroker, are we not having problems with Iran and North Korea? I think Bush took care of Iraq, but Obama could screw that up in a hurry.
If you can not read between the lines, then I am sorry your just thick in the head.
Here is another one for you to knaw on PowerStroker-
A weapon of mass destruction (WMD) is a weapon that can kill and bring significant harm to a large numbers of humans (and other life forms) and/or cause great damage to man-made structures (e.g. buildings), natural structures (e.g. mountains), or the biosphere in general. The scope and application of the term has evolved and been disputed, often signifying more politically than technically.
And yet I will draw the first line from #1 to #2, if you cant count on from there, it's no hope for you anyway;
Chemical Weapons Against Kurds As early as April 1987, the Iraqis used chemical weapons to remove Kurds from their villages in northern Iraq during the Anfal campaign. It is estimated that chemical weapons were used on approximately 40 Kurdish villages, with the largest of these attacks occurring on March 16, 1988 against the Kurdish town of Halabja. Beginning in the morning on March 16, 1988 and continuing all night, the Iraqis rained down volley after volley of bombs filled with a deadly mixture of mustard gas and nerve agents on Halabja. Immediate effects of the chemicals included blindness, vomiting, blisters, convulsions, and asphyxiation. Approximately 5,000 women, men, and children died within days of the attacks. Long-term effects included permanent blindness, cancer, and birth defects. An estimated 10,000 lived, but live daily with the disfigurement and sicknesses from the chemical weapons. Saddam Hussein's cousin, Ali Hassan al-Majid was directly in charge of the chemical attacks against the Kurds, earning him the epithet, "Chemical Ali." Sounds like wepons of mass distruction to me PowerStroker. But you will claim none of this built up the momentum for the 911 attacks, to you 911 happend because a few angry Islamist happend to be pissed that day... Not everyone is blind like you PowerStroker.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
I didn't ask which connections your mind drew, or which connections Bush's mind drew. I asked which connections were drawn by credible journalism. Please try again.
-- Edited by PowerStroker on Monday 4th of October 2010 10:07:32 PM
Credible Journalism? I wasn't aware there was such a thing!?
I only offer supporting links to Journalisim and even then it's only to back what I see as the truth.
You been told what to do for far too long PowerStroker, you have lost the ability to even reason with yourself. Man, is this what a party at the end of their pathetic ropes look like? Because you guys are losing ground each day you know.
Let me see here....
Man... Obama's under 30% approval with almost 50% flat out thinking he is WRONG. It won't be long before Obama and the Democrats make Bush's approval ratings look good.... Eh... Wait a minute, that has already happend! LOL
I guess I understand why you are so upset PowerStroker. But to resort to treason by trying to push this ignorant idea that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 911 only proves the Democrats are in bed with the axis of evil.
You un-American peice of shit.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
I lost hope in Democrats back when slick willy cheated on his wife and got his dick sucked by a co-worker.
WTF do I care if you can't figure it out? We need some idiots to turn a blind eye to the truth otherwise it's no fun when it comes time to rub it in. Of course, Democrats are good at dishing it out, not so great at taking it. Need proof of that too? Read anything dated between 2000-2008 written by a Democrat.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
I didn't ask about Bill Clinton's sex life, or whether you care about my ability to figure things out, or how good my party is taking it and giving it, or reading things dated between 2000 - 2008.
I asked about whether or not there is verifiable journalism showing a link between Saddam Hussein, and the 911 attacks on the United States.
Proof that Saddam bankrolls terrorism: documents seized by Israel in raids against Palestinian Authority offices in the West Bank in recent months detail massive terror funding from the Iraqi dictator;
The other one was from Fox news, but since they gave the Republicans millions in campaign contributions I figured you might not give them the credit due.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
~"KENNETH R. TIMMERMAN IS A SENIOR WRITER FOR Insight MAGAZINE."
Insight magazine appears to be a religious right wing publication and certainly not on my list of acceptable news sources, even though this article appeared in a subsidiary of CBS, it was not the CBS news desk, and furthermore doesnt meet the challenge anyway of proving a direct link between Saddam Hussein and the 911 attacks on the United States.
Okay then PowerStroker... Two can play at this game.
It is now your turn...
Show me proof from your credible news sources that Saddam Hussein did NOT have anything to do with 911? After all the burdon of proof lies with both the Plaintiff and Defendant, and I have already entered several exhibits to solidify my possition, it's about time YOU show me some proof.
I got a feeling we wont be getting any such proof, and thus you would lose by default.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
This is my thread and it has only one purpose - to see if there is any link between Saddam Hussein and the attacks on 911. In our system of justice, we are innocent until proven guilty, so it seems the burden of proof is on you to prove that Saddam is guilty of the 911 attacks, not the other way around.
But wait, this is not a poll! It's my word vs. yours! Even then neither of us has actual hands on proof.
I have already made my case! Who is the Judge? You can't be the Plaintiff and the Judge PowerStroker. You have to give SOME testimony or proof otherwise you lose for lack of a case!
At this time I am now submitting my motion for Summery Disposition, on the bassis that the Plaintiff has failed to make a case, and I wish to have a verdict entered in my favor because the Plaintiff has faild to offer ANY CASE whatsoever outside his opening statement. Whom might I fill in as the Judge PowerStroker?
Oh! You know what that means don't you PowerStroker? I am now the "Moving Party" and you MUST respond with SOME KIND OF PROOF or my motion is granted and you lose. I mean this is how it goes in the "Real World", can you handle it? Or are you just going to say fuck it, and let me win?
-- Edited by SELLC on Monday 4th of October 2010 11:49:55 PM
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
This is not one of your court cases Rex. The entire purpose of this thread was an open challenge to anyone who wishes to provide credible proof that Saddam was behind the 911 attacks on the United Stastes. I can tell that you are frustrated by your inability thus far to do so, and you're trying to change the purpose of this thread. If you wish for me to provide proof that there isn't a connection, I suggest you start a new thread.
The guy was toppled, captured, tried and hung. I don't need any more fucking proof. Next you will be saying Hitler was a saint.
Quit smoking that crack PowerStroker, it's killing your mind. I have already offered up SEVERAL articles and links with PROOF. You have offered NOTHING outside the statement in your Subject line.
This may not be a court, but it's clear to see you are trying to hold other people to a higher standard than that of yourself. Just because you know shit about law doesn't mean you can use that as an excuse.
Defendants motion for summery is granted, Plaintiff PowerStroker has lost in that he has not offered up a case outside of a personal statement to prove the defence wrong.
You lose, better luck next time bud... I been sick as hell and I am well medicated at the moment. Aint no way you are getting under my skin buster.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
I didn't ask whether he was a nice guy, captured, tried, or hung. Nor did I say Hitler was a Saint. I have yet to see a link to a credible news outlet on my list of acceptable sources say there was a direct link between Saddam Hussein, and the 911 attacks on the United States despite your claims of having provided such proof. The Idea that I am a plaintiff or a defendant in a case is ridiculous. I'm simply asking you to show me sufficient evidence to support the premise under which you seem to operate.
Please try again.
-- Edited by PowerStroker on Monday 4th of October 2010 11:34:37 PM
Perhaps you should take my advise and start a seperate thread asking for proof there wasn't a link between Saddam and the 911 attacks on the United States.
PowerStroker wrote: Please try again. I don't need to PowerStroker... The case has been decided and the guy has been hung. Perhaps Saddams defence attorney was much like you, and found himself in the unique position of having a client that claimed "He Didn't Do it", however I have been more than fair in offering up proof. Just because you don't want to look at it, does not mean you are excused from having to provide the same.
Keep the "Change" you filthy animal!
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
He was hung, but what for exactly? There were plenty of reasons for his people to execute him. I never said he was a nice guy, I simply asked for someone to prove that he was linked to the 911 attacks on the United States.
PowerStroker, there are about 7-8 pages of proof in this link below,
Proof that Saddam bankrolls terrorism: documents seized by Israel in raids against Palestinian Authority offices in the West Bank in recent months detail massive terror funding from the Iraqi dictator;
Now before you run your mouth about that site being a Right wing site, you better be prepared to offer PROOF of that. I am not going to entertain your apparent drunken condition tonight. I have provided the proof, you just refuse to look at it and dismiss it as Right wing without one bit of proof to back up your claims. I see a trend emerging here, and it's you failing to back up your statements, not I.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
PowerStroker, there are about 7-8 pages of proof in this link below,
Proof that Saddam bankrolls terrorism: documents seized by Israel in raids against Palestinian Authority offices in the West Bank in recent months detail massive terror funding from the Iraqi dictator;
Remember the date your article was published, I'll tell you why later. Anytime we buy gasoline we're bankrolling terrorism too. I'm looking for a specific link between Saddam Hussein and the 911 attacks on the United States.
It lays out the evidence of Iraq's operational ties to al-Qaeda terrorists.
People buying Gasoline is a whole diffrent thing than what is uncovered in that article. The specific links you are looking for are all included in that article. If you don't want to read it, then you just want to be ignorant. I can't help you.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
Did you even watch that first video? How about the second?
Did I EVER say Saddam himself ran planes into the WTC? No.
What I and everyone has been telling you from the start is Saddam and Iraq were part of an axis of evil, that conspired and funded attacks on the USA.
What you are suggesting PowerStroker is that Saddam is innocent because he only assosiated with and funded these terrorist. WRONG! Much like how the Mafia leader does not actually call the hits but arms his thugs with wepons and money along with strong suggestions. There is no diffrence here.
Saddam used chemical weapons on his OWN PEOPLE in his own country! This would be much like Obama ordering the military to drop mustard bombs on a Republican rally. It's genocide!
I see other leaders, notably the one from Iran, who are trying to pervert this issue for political gain. We all know the Iranian President is dirty, just like we knew Saddam was dirty.
If Saddam gave just ONE CENT of his countries money to terrorist with the intent to do AMERICANS harm; which Saddam did; then he had very much to do with it. When you have a network of terrorist you have to start somewhere. I don't see how the world could have been BETTER by allowing Saddam to remain in power, but I can see his removal has greatly weakend the terrorist responsible for 911, so much in fact that a new talking head (President of Iran) is trying to bolster more of his people to hate America and become a Jihad Terrorist. This is the reason the President of Iran is running his mouth, because there has been no one left in power to stir the pot. Saddam is gone, and an example has been made. Seems like we need another example be made, only this time I hope the Israel makes that example by snuffing the President of Iran before he gets more people killed in the name of his Holy Book.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
Saddam was a Dictator. He was an advocate of terrorisim and supported it. People in Iraq and Iran cheered when they got news of the 911 events. They even danced in the streets. How quickly your kind forgets PowerStroker. Perhaps it's because you pray for a quick and painless death, to be spared the pain of having to make a choice and stand by your ideals.
Saddam was coward enough to hide in the shadows of the terrorist, usually because he liked to slip money in their pockets. He was a coward when he cralled out of the hole in the earth when captured. He was not tolorant of anything outside his own thoughts.
I don't care how bad you Democrats want to stir up shit before the elections, the vast majority of Americans, THE REAL AMERICANS; are not buying this bullshit you guys are selling.
Like I said in post #2
Axis of Evil. Bush talked of this well before the attacks on 911. I would tell you to get your head out of your ass, but you seem to like it up there.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
Bush INVENTED the phrase "Axis of Evil." If we're having a debate about whether the policies of a president were just, shouldn't we shy away from using his talking points in that debate and just stick with facts?
So there aren't any other dictators in the middle east especially, who have turned a blind eye to terrorist groups and even indirectly funded them? Saddam was unique how exactly?
Did you know the Iranian people, and Palestinians were holding candle light vigils in the streets for us after 911 because they truly felt bad for what had happened, and because they did not in any way sympathize with the extremists who performed those horrible acts... All of which were Saudi Arabian.
-- Edited by PowerStroker on Tuesday 5th of October 2010 02:19:37 AM
PowerStroker there is enough blame to keep the world turning. The fun part is watching people try and shift that blame.
Me as an individual? Outside of voicing my bias American view point on global issues I have very little effect on these people of other nations. Except for when I vote, nothing I do will really have a profund effect on the quality of life for Middle Eastern countries. For the people living in these lands that truly from the depths of their heart wish us well, I extend to them the same wishing of wellness.
As it stands right now, these people infest my country, yet for some odd reason I feel absolultly no need to infest theirs outside of keeping them from killing one another and sending their radicals. I don't see any Americans living it up in Iran, nor do I see any Americans kicking it in North Korea. There may be 30,000 Americans kicking it in Iran right now, but I am willing to bet they dont feel welcome. Why don't you ask Sarah Sheroods (Sp?) male friends what THEY think of Iran hospitality. She prolly had more fun being a woman than the two men that are still there. I get the impression she was somewhat of a tramp given the fact she traveled with two men, and any sexual acts would have been better than getting none at all. Then again this is just my opinion, but from the interviews I have seen, that's just how I feel.
None of this has anything to do with Saddam, unless you have half a brain and realize these sorts of things are straight out of the terrorist handbook. Things like hostages and airplanes are the cornerstone of any terrorist network. Hell PowerStroker I can remember being a kid and watching some towel head throw a dead body out of a commerical airliner demanding we do this or that.
Honestly PowerStroker, just blow it out your ass already. No one is buying it. There is Change comming, but you might not like it.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
Now see.... That's a loaded question. But I enjoy these kinds of questions.
There is a strong indication from past events (history) that power struggles will bring about war. Who is involved and where seems to be a big debate. Obama is putting our money in Afghanistan, and while I think it's a waste of time and resources, it could be a good strong hold should we need to kick in Irans door.
Then we have the North Koreans, who might I add are not very happy about our battleship floating around in their waters. They are so upset about this they have started to join together. All of a sudden we have North Korea talking to South Korea, and even China is warming up to the Korea's. Why? Because if they can't get along, we have a contract with Japan that says we have to kill em. Mind you, this all come to a head with the North was accused of sinking a South Korean ship.
Now moving back to the middle east, we have this same kind of deal going with Israel, yet we have pummeled Iraq, much like Japan. Diffrence here is we didnt rebuild Iraq like we did Japan, but then again we didn't nuke Iraq. I would wager to say much of China's technology came from Japan after we re-tooled em'.
Now I don't claim to know anything but what I have been told with regards to many of these issues between Japan, China and the Korea's as I was not even born back then, but I have followed a lot of the 80's and up Middle East issues.
What I can tell you from history books is that we have similar beefs with the United Kingdom, when we took our independence. We also have beef's with Germany over the Nazi uprising, and I guess we could include Cuba and now some other country where as we had a deal to spread STD's to research a cure.
It's plain to me PowerStroker that Saddam was not just a start. He is but one of many to fall in our quest to protect our way of life. I can only assume other nations would like to see us fall, weather or not you fuckers allow that to happen will come down to the day America is invaded, and we are fighting the war here in America because people like Obama and the Democrats gave in to these people and were ignorant enough to befriend people who clearly hate us.
My issues are not with immigrants, it's with their alliance. Is it to America? Or is it to whoever has the best deal going at the moment? After all if they are an American immigrant, it's quite clear who has the better deal going, but that could change, and I fear that it is changing... Because people like you are so ignorant when it comes to trusting people that really assume kill you, as to look at you.
I am pretty sure 911 can be traced back to the very first war or battle known to man. It starts out as a power struggle, and then it becomes war. Obama might have won a Nobel Peace prize, but he's still waging wars that kill people.
So not only do we have a whole lot mor countries to invade, we get to worry about the ones we already invaded.
You get it? Cuz I am starting to think these cold pills that claim to make you sleepy are not working, cuz I dont feel sleepy and I am still sick.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
Right now it seems we could fall back and let them all rebuild for awhile, but would it be worth another major attack on American soil? Because if that happens, we will just be going right back over there.
I got an idea, how about if we just maintain troops in these problem areas? Wait a minute, isnt that what we are doing?
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
That's pretty funny PowerStroker. With regards to trying again, well you are a lost cause. I can offer you no more insight. You lost several replys ago.
Please go fuck yourself... Again.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
I was not asking for a debate on whether the Iraq invasion was justified, or looking for someone to tell me to fuck myself. I was simply asking for someone to provide me proof that Saddam Hussein was behind the 911 attacks on the United States. Rex, if you are unable to provide such proof, it's ok to stop trying and perhaps let some of the other members of this site take a stab at it. Other wise...
I have already given you several. If you like I can find some more, but while I am doing that how about you find me a link to Obama's long form birth certificate.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
I didn't ask for propaganda, or for President Obama's birth certificate. I asked for verifiable journalistic proof from a credible news desk from the list at the beginning of this thread of acceptable sources, that Saddam Hussein was behind the 911 attacks specifically, not generic support of terrorism in general.
I can lead you to water PowerStroker, but I can't make you drink.
Allow me to ask you a few questions, because how you respond might not allow me to ever get thru to you.
1st off, don't you feel that if Saddam funded the terrorist, that would be considered as "Havng something to do with 911"? You don't think that Saddam giving them money, safe haven/passage along with running his anti-American trap asking his people to rise up and fight to the death the infedel Americans has anything to do with 911, terrorist and recrutment of people to a cause?
Saddam himself might not have had anything to do with hi-jacking the plane, or flying it himself into the WTC, but he was involved with terrorist and made calls publicly for terrorist attacks on Americans.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
That's a pretty weak argument for justifying a 1-3 Trillion dollar invasion of his country at our expense. There is no shortage of world leaders who have done far more than Saddam ever did to harm the US, yet we didn't go for "regime change" in their countries. What disturbs me is that, in the lead up to the war, a false connection between Saddam and 911 was intentionally sold to us to garner our support. I view this as criminally wrong, as well as distracting us from our real cause by taking our attention away from Bin Laden. I also find it disturbing that so many people still believe the propaganda to this day, even though the people responsible for it have since admitted it was untrue as shown in the videos a few posts up. The fact is, Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden did not get along very well. They were both Islamic assholes, but really had very little in common. Bin Laden was a religious extremist driven by his perverted fringe version of Islam to have a holy war against anyone who wouldn't be converted to his religion. Saddam on the other hand was a very secular Muslim who was driven by greed and power to oppress his people for personal gain. I realize from your point of view there may not be much difference, but I assure you they are/were very different people with very different agendas. As I understand, after the 1st gulf war when George Sr. So brilliantly kicked his ass, Saddam was so terrified of the United States that he wouldn't even sleep in the same palace 2 nights in a row for several years for fear the CIA would whack him on a moments notice. I also understand the main reason we didn't whack him, is because a geo-political calculation was made during the Bush Sr presidency - and I think rightly so that a secular leader in Iraq (Saddam) would be a good check on the fanatical government in Iran. As you know, Iraq and Iran didn't exactly have a great relationship. It is my opinion that George Jr should have consulted with his daddy first before lying us in to this war, because as you see, after spending all of our blood and treasure getting rid of Saddam, it only made Iran stronger. And the Iran government actually does have a lot in common with Bin Laden,who by the way was put on the back burner for this false war in Iraq.
It seems to me that you operate under the assumption that the more Muslims we kill, the better off America will be, but I think George Jr. Just proved that argument wrong. Misguided blood lust is only going to weaken our standing in the world and cause our taxes to go up to pay for these misadventures. So if you still don't get it...
Please try again.
-- Edited by PowerStroker on Thursday 7th of October 2010 01:03:16 AM
PowerStroker, it's like this.... YOU GOT TO START SOMEWHERE.
Your good buddy Clinton wanted Saddam removed from power as well. Going into the war Americans were told several things, all of them true. Here you are complaining that you feel decived, when everything said prior to going to war WAS true.
Now when it comes to the new healthcare law, and all of the REAL LIES we were told, you do not seem the least bit concerned!? Perhaps if they were going to enforce this bullshit law upon some other country you would be upset?
I just can't justify arguing over something like the reasons we went to war with Iraq, when you sit over there and ignore the obvious healthcare bill omissions and lies. The reasons for going to war with Iraq were all TRUE. Saddam did have weapons of mass distruction because he used them on his own people. Saddam was assisting the terrorist in their endevors.
I am pretty sure this healthcare law will cost twice as much as the Iraq war, and it will do VERY LITTLE to extend coverage to ALL AMERICANS. Why are you making a big deal out of the truth, and dismissing flat out lies and intentional omissions when it came to Obamacare?
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
I didn't ask for an explanation of why we went to war in Iraq, I asked for proof that Saddam Hussein was specifically behind the 911 attacks on the United States.
I didn't ask for an explanation of why we went to war in Iraq, I asked for proof that Saddam Hussein was specifically behind the 911 attacks on the United States.
Please try again.
PowerStroker this is why we have the FBI, CIA and Armed Forces.
I don't have access to all of Saddam's records, I don't have the classified information the government has, yet you wan't me to give you something on top of the already MOUNTIAN of public information that proves Saddam had a part in the terror network that attacked us on 911.
Pffffft. We should change your name to Putz.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
Oh and by the way PowerStroker, can you please give us a link to a video, or a government document that states that we soley blamed Saddam for the 911 attacks?
You see it would be really nice if you could provide some kind of "Proof", as often times your opinions are unfounded and lacking.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
PowerStroker this is why we have the FBI, CIA and Armed Forces.
I don't have access to all of Saddam's records, I don't have the classified information the government has, yet you wan't me to give you something on top of the already MOUNTIAN of public information that proves Saddam had a part in the terror network that attacked us on 911.
Well, if you don't have any such basis for operating under the premise that Saddam was behind 911, then why do you operate under that premise? If you don't have the answer to the question I posted at the beginning of this thread, you shouldn't feel the need to respond. This thread is an open question to anyone who actually does have the link to the information I seek. After all, I don't feel a need to respond to members posting technical questions about Mercedes. Neither should you feel the need to respond to things like this where you don't seem to have the answer.
Oh and by the way PowerStroker, can you please give us a link to a video, or a government document that states that we soley blamed Saddam for the 911 attacks?
You'll have to start a new thread for that question, I'm sorry I won't let this one be hijacked.