China currency spat decision delayed

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Is China a currency manipulator?

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Yep! Not even an HOUR later the headlines now read

China currency spat decision delayed

Report that could strain U.S.-China ties now expected in Nov.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39683974/ns/business-world_business/

What more could you expect from the Obama Administration but "Let's wait until after election time before we do nothing".

Total fucking joke!

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

This is nothing new, this problem began in the Clinton administration, and Bush ignored it his entire presidency. If you're going to take shots at Obama, please explain what he is doing differently from Bush, and why we are worse for it.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

China has been cited as a currency manipulator in 1988 and in 1992 PowerStroker!

Supporting link- http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/pm164/

And you should know this issue is not something that just come up because Obama is in office. If you read the article above you will see this has been a well known and documented problem since 1988! It just goes to show how underqualified the President is for anyone to say otherwise.

Obama is just too weak to make the call on time. The amazing transparancy here is the simple fact it is CLEAR Obama and the Democrats are putting their up coming elections before the greater good of the country! This is absolute bullshit.

I don't know if you read the original article from MSN that I posted back then, but if you read it now the entire article has been changed! For this reason people almost need to capture the entire News Desk's original article right after reading, or risk looking like a fool after they edit and water it down. I can only imagine how Washington Democrats pound the media outlets day in and day out to keep the public in the dark.

I suggest reading my most recent link above, it's very informative and not from some bullshit flip-flop News Desk that PowerStroker puts his blind faith in.

-- Edited by SELLC on Saturday 16th of October 2010 02:04:36 PM

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

"The enforcement problem
The Treasury has not identified any countries as currency manipulators since 1994. While the Treasury should identify China as a currency manipulator and begin negotioantions immediatetly, the fact is that an act of Congress will likely be needed to spur China to act.

I smell another Republican filibuster.

The countries identified as currency manipulators prior to 1994, including China, played a relatively small role in overall U.S. trade, as shown in Table 1. Furthermore, prior to the formation of the World Trade Organization (WTO), the United States had the authority to impose unilateral trade sanctions under Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974 (as amended), under authority to address unfair trade practices. When the United States joined the WTO in 1994, it agreed to pursuing the resolution of trade disputes with other WTO member countries through the WTO dispute settlement mechanism (including section 301 enforcement actions), according to trade attorneys from Stewart and Stewart (2004).

Thus, under the WTO the United States cannot threaten China with immediate consequences, even if it is found guilty of currency manipulation. Furthermore, China is now responsible for a much larger share of total U.S. trade than it was when last cited for currency manipulation in the early 1990s, as shown above. Currently, U.S. trade with China is similar to that with Japan and Western Europe when Nixon imposed the 1971 import surcharge (when those regions were responsible for up to 80% of U.S. trade deficits and 40% of total U.S. trade), and during the years of the Plaza Accord (when that group of countries was responsible for up to 57% of U.S. trade deficits and 43% of total U.S. trade), as shown in Table 1.

In sum, the United States lacks the direct enforcement tools needed to persuade China to revalue its currency"

How is this Obama's fault? If Clinton and the Republican congress didn't get us in to the WTO in the 90's, we could actually do something about this like impose tarrifs. Please explain exactly what you would like Obama to do about this. Clearly we can't leave the WTO unless congress agrees to it, and there is no way in hell the Republicans would allow that to happen. Your ability to identify China as a problem is nice, but you fail to understand the underlying problem with our political system that allows this to continue, and it aint Obama's fault.

_________________________________________________________________

EPI Policy Memorandum #164

Print-friendly PDF version

"Growing U.S. trade deficits with Chinadue, in part, to the Chinese governments manipulation of its currencycaused 2.4 million U.S. jobs to be lost or displaced in manufacturing and other trade-related industries between 2001 and 2008 alone,¹ and 100 million workers experienced lower wages due to competition with imports from low-wage countries (Scott 2010b)."

I wonder who was in charge between 2001 and 2008... Oh yeah, that Texan guy who didn't meet a bad free trade deal he didn't love.

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Saturday 16th of October 2010 05:49:38 PM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:

How is this Obama's fault? If Clinton and the Republican congress didn't get us in to the WTO in the 90's, we could actually do something about this like impose tarrifs. Please explain exactly what you would like Obama to do about this. Clearly we can't leave the WTO unless congress agrees to it, and there is no way in hell the Republicans would allow that to happen. Your ability to identify China as a problem is nice, but you fail to understand the underlying problem with our political system that allows this to continue, and it aint Obama's fault.

It is Obama's fault PowerStroker. I never said it was ALL Obama's fault, as if to imply he caused it, but right now the ball is in his court. He should be doing EVERYTHING to turn this economy around, and allowing China to manipulate their currency until after the elections is just a poor show of his lack of consideration for the hard working American people, many of whom are without jobs right now. Now if I have to tell Obama how to do his job like you suggest, then the real problem is in his inability to lead. What I may suggest means nothing, that's why this issue is NOW OBAMAS FAULT. Others have had to make the hard call in the past, but Obama just put his job as leader on hold until after election. Not cool.

I wonder who was in charge between 2001 and 2008... Oh yeah, that Texan guy who didn't meet a bad free trade deal he didn't love.

Yes Bush was the President between 2001 and 2008 however as I recall it was a Democratic controlled House and Senate. Might I also add that we were at war (You know a real one with a mission/objective and everything).

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Actually Bush had a Republican House of Representitataves for the first 6 years of his presidency. It flipped to Dems in 2006. The Senate switched a couple times in his presidency.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

That's an interesting way of wording it. I for one am tired of having to spend so much time watching over my government. I am tired of reading about the corruption. I would rather spend my time doing other things, but every since the Obama Administration moved in, I feel much more time has had to be spent researching this stuff. You should see some of the political flyers I have been getting. It's honestly is a dog-eats-dog world, and I do not see anything changing it.

The Republicans seem to speak my lingo, so naturally I want to align myself with a group of like minded folks. What are your reasons for being a jackass PowerStroker? Seriously?

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

My reason is that I actually dislike the "dumbed down" lingo, and prefer the $10 words the Democrats use in their explinations.

Well, that, and the fact that I am a working class American, and the only major party that seems to have any respect for my plight as such, is the Democratic party.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:

My reason is that I actually dislike the "dumbed down" lingo, and prefer the $10 words the Democrats use in their explinations.

I have been told that "If you have to explain it to them, it's a good chance they will never understand".

-- Edited by SELLC on Friday 22nd of October 2010 01:21:07 AM

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

That would explain why there are still so many right wing retards running around.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Could you explain that to me?

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Like you said, they will never understand - even if you explain it to them... Thus, perpetual retards.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Seem's to be the Democrats who are always trying to explain their bullshit.

Most of the stuff I really don't want to understand, because at it's core they want to take away our rights.

Michigan has been a Democratic state for some time now, guess that explains why Michigan is having so many problems. I should also add that this most recent ressession started right here in Michigan, after ole' Bill Clinton got NAFTA pushed thru.

Since NAFTA you might notice that more than 1/2 of your FORD TRUCKS are made in Mexico, and the other half? You guessed it CANADA!

Yeah please explain to me how the Democrats are doing a good job, because from what I see around me, I don't understand how anyone could trust them.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

SELLC wrote:

Seem's to be the Democrats who are always trying to explain their bullshit.

Most of the stuff I really don't want to understand,

Lack of intellectual curiosity is a real problem

because at it's core they want to take away our rights.

The only rights the Dems want to take away, are the rights of health insurance copanies to let their customers die off if the medical bills reach beyond a certin point.

Dems actually want to increase your liberties ie: the right to have an abortion, the right to marry someone of the same gender, the right to organize in the workplace. But the lions share of the Dem's time is spent fighting the special interests who try to actually take your rights away. Like when they fight for tougher Wall St. Regulations to help protect the retirement savings of the citizens. When they fight for tougher Oilpa regulations to protect the citizens and small businesses on the Gulf coast. When the fight the health insurance companies to make sure people aren't denied care for a pre-existing condition.
The Democrats view government as the peoples tool for standing up to the interests who would otherwise enslave the people in to a life of servitude.

Michigan has been a Democratic state for some time now, guess that explains why Michigan is having so many problems. I should also add that this most recent ressession started right here in Michigan, after ole' Bill Clinton got NAFTA pushed thru.

Michigan has problems because Clinton joined in the Republican effort to outsource manufacturing jobs. Michigan is a Democratic state, because the current crop of Democrats actually realize how much damage that policy has done, and want to reverse it.

Since NAFTA you might notice that more than 1/2 of your FORD TRUCKS are made in Mexico, and the other half? You guessed it CANADA!

I am aware. My 76 F150 was built in Michigan, My 00 F150 was built in Canada.

Yeah please explain to me how the Democrats are doing a good job, because from what I see around me, I don't understand how anyone could trust them.
Lack of trust usually results from being lied to. Obama campaigned on health care reform, education reform, and energy reform. In his first 2 years he signed in to law the biggest piece of health care reform legislation since the "New Deal," Took the for-profit middle man out of the student loan system so there isn't any more skimming off the broke students trying to get ahead in the world. He also dismantled the corrupt Department of Minerals Management that was LITERALLY having sex with oil company lobbyists. There are also 100,000 fewer soldiers fighting in Iraq. All of this accomplished despite an overwhelming record number of procedural road blocks thrown at him in congress - mostly the Senate. Perhaps he didn't get us everything he promised in his campaign, at least not yet, but he's still trying. It's really hard to call him a liar and loose trust after 2 years of that much success.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:

Lack of intellectual curiosity is a real problem

See the thing is I am not curious, I am well aware what life would be like if we let the Democrats turn this nation into a socialized nation where the government told us how to live. There is a point where these people in power become corrupt because they no longer live like normal people and they suck off the government tit. Might I add that tit get's it's milk from the American people. I think they have gone too far. Because at the Democrats core they want to take away our rights.

Dems actually want to increase your liberties ie: the right to have an abortion, the right to marry someone of the same gender, the right to organize in the workplace. But the lions share of the Dem's time is spent fighting the special interests who try to actually take your rights away. Like when they fight for tougher Wall St. Regulations to help protect the retirement savings of the citizens. When they fight for tougher Oilpa regulations to protect the citizens and small businesses on the Gulf coast. When the fight the health insurance companies to make sure people aren't denied care for a pre-existing condition.
The Democrats view government as the peoples tool for standing up to the interests who would otherwise enslave the people in to a life of servitude.

I am sorry PowerStroker, but everything you have said above is BULLSHIT. Democrats fight for ways to force Americans to do things they don't want to do, hince BIG GOVERNMENT. You guys can keep that shit.

Michigan has problems because Clinton joined in the Republican effort to outsource manufacturing jobs. Michigan is a Democratic state, because the current crop of Democrats actually realize how much damage that policy has done, and want to reverse it.

Clinton is a Democrat. If he caved to the Republicans it's because he was weak! It's just another fine example of why we can not trust the Democrats. Clinton pulled the trigger on NAFTA, not the Republicans. Sometimes I think they do this to prove how ignorant the Democratic party is, and every time the Democrats prove them right.

I am aware. My 76 F150 was built in Michigan, My 00 F150 was built in Canada.

Yeah and 50% of the parts made on the super duty were made in Mexico.

Lack of trust usually results from being lied to. Obama campaigned on health care reform, education reform, and energy reform. In his first 2 years he signed in to law the biggest piece of health care reform legislation since the "New Deal," Took the for-profit middle man out of the student loan system so there isn't any more skimming off the broke students trying to get ahead in the world. He also dismantled the corrupt Department of Minerals Management that was LITERALLY having sex with oil company lobbyists. There are also 100,000 fewer soldiers fighting in Iraq. All of this accomplished despite an overwhelming record number of procedural road blocks thrown at him in congress - mostly the Senate. Perhaps he didn't get us everything he promised in his campaign, at least not yet, but he's still trying. It's really hard to call him a liar and loose trust after 2 years of that much success.

PowerStroker... Let me just say that passing any old peice of shit law such as the healthcare law we have now is not an accomplishment. If anything something this big and fucked up will cause more problems than it will solve. The Democrats have taken away our right to choose with the mandate. It boils my blood and I will NEVER support the Democrats agenda of Big Government. I can see this new healthcare law biting Americans in the ass much like Clintons NAFTA. It's quite easy to see even after two short years that Obama is not worth the money he is being paid. If someone started painting your home, and didnt even strip the old flaking paint before rolling on the new stuff wouldn't you fire him on the spot? We don't have to suffer poor leadership for another two years just because Obama is black. He should be impeached.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Lets get back to the topic at hand.

What specifics should Obama do to deal with China's currency manipulation and trade dumping tactics?

NOTE: Your answer must be something that Obama actually has the power to do by himself, or get through the Republican filibuster in the Senate.

No more attacks on Obama's character, I want a realistic policy answer that he can actually achieve in the current political enviornment. You keep saying this is all Obama's fault, but don't ever seem to have any ideas of what you would do differently, at least realistic ideas that can actually be done with a defiant minority in congress.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

I agree...

As I have mentioned SEVERAL times in this thread Obama's first step was to call a spade a spade... Meaning that calling out China as a currency manipulator in of itself would have been the 1st step. Because he was too soft to do so means that he is putting off the very important 1st step. How can he do anything now? He cowered like a little bitch and put the entire issue on the back burner until after election time, which I am sure he's got enough distractions up his sleeve to keep the publics attention focused on other non-issues.

Had he been the President the United States needed, and called out China then he could have moved to put sanctions on China. This could have been a tax on their exports. It is clear to see that China has the advantage of paying near slave labor cost. Not only that China is a tax shelter for companies to build their products there, and then ship them all over the world, cutting out the United States, it's workers and the long chain of jobs that goes with manufaturing anything.

How can I suggest things Obama can do when the most important thing he could have done (The 1st step) has been put on the back burner until after election time. That right there in of itself proves he could give a fuck about the American people so long as he can stay in power.

You might not like how I feel about Obama, and that is fine. I have always said that America can weather a bad President like Obama, what America can not weather is all the dumb ass idiots who put him there.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Well, as I recall early in President Obama's term, China was caught dumping cheap tires in our country. The US tire manufacturers filed a grievance with the administration, and Obama unilaterally imposed a tarrif on tires coming from China. In the case of the tires, he actually had the power to do something, and he did. Furthermore his administration HAS complained about China's trade and currency practices. Unfortunately the power to really do something about it has been surrendered to the WTO thanks to Clinton and the Republicans of the 90's. In order to return that power to President Obama, Congress will need to pull us out of the WTO. Though a majority of Dems would support that move, I can assure you that ALL Republicans will stand together and filibuster such a move. Would you still blame Obama at that point?

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Sorry PowerStroker, but the real manipulator here seems to be YOU!

See Obama was required to make a statement, he failed to do so. It's not a matter of him having the POWER, it's a matter of him putting off his job.

May I remind you PowerStroker that Clinton is a Democrat, and while he may have had spurts where Republicans had control of congress; it was the Democratic President Clinton who ultimatly had the final say with regards to the WTO and NAFTA.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

I am aware, and Clinton now regrets his decision to sign that legislation.

So you would be happy with Obama if only he made a non binding public statement condemning China?

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:

I am aware, and Clinton now regrets his decision to sign that legislation.
So you would be happy with Obama if only he made a non binding public statement condemning China?

Does he also regret cheating on his wife? How about cooking the books?

I don't think he regrets a damn thing! He would be more than happy to fist fuck America once more thru his wife IF she were ever elected President.

God help us if that ever comes to pass.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

You didn't answer my question. I asked if you would be happy with Obama if only he made a non binding public statement condemning China.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Non-Binding? Everything Obama has done should be non-binding if you ask me.

He had the responsibility of letting everyone know what was going on, and by making the statement it would have put the ball in motion. As it stands Obama could not do that, considering he must have been planing on asking Steve Jobs of Apple for campaign contributions. Just how much money do you think Apple would have given Obama's campaign if the cost to make their iPhones went up?

See PowerStroker, your claims of the statement being non-binding is a non-issue. Another one of your jackass attempts to downplay Obamas short commings.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

China has been a currency manipulator for a lot longer than Obama has been president. Did you ever bust George's balls over this issue?

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

China has been a manipulator in the past, and the other Presidents called China on it. Had there been manipulation going on during Bush's term he would have called them on it also.

You failed to read the article, however that is no supprise because Democrats never bother to read the details. You see the manipulation came about when the elections were coming up on Obama's watch. It was Obama's job of President of the United States to make that statement ON TIME.

China was testing Obama, and Obama failed. They know the power has gone to his head, and that there would be no way Obama was going to rock the boat. It is much like knowing someone is stealing, yet not saying anything because you are too afraid to take an ass whopping. In this case it will be the Economy that takes the whooping, while Obama frolicks with the big business your party claims to protect you from.

Great guy your Democrats have there buddy. Maybe after November 2nd he can go over there and bow to the Emperor of China also?

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

If you think China just started this when Obama took office you're an idiot. I've been hearing reports of China's currency manipulation for at least 10 years. Bush didn't do shit about it, and during part of his presidency he actually had "Fast Track" authority to unilaterally make and change trade deals. That authority has not been renewed by congress and thus Obama doesn't have nearly the power Bush had to deal with a problem that was still very real during his presidency.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Look I am in in no capacity to explain this to you at the moment....

So... Just fucking click on the damn link and you will see other Presidents have done the job that Obama has not. China has been sighted as a currency manipulator SEVERAL times in the past.

For gawds sake PowerStroker YOU even voted that China was a currency manipulator! Even YOU got more balls than Obama!

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Here's proof it was a problem under the Bush administration, Bush's own treasury secretary is admitting so BEFORE Obama took office.

How do you like me (and Obama) now bitch?

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker, here is what I don't understand...

While the video was rather interesting it basiclly reflects my point of veiw that Obama isn't doing his job. It says clearly in the video that Obama pledged to do something about China's currency manipulation in his campaign, yet Obama failed to deliver on his promise as of this time.

Your statements about Bush not doing anything about it having NOTHING to do with the fact that Obama made a campaign promise to address the issue, yet has done NOTHING.

So to answer your question of "How do I like you and Obama now" I would have to say, "DO YOUR FUCKING JOB AND QUIT TRYING TO ACT LIKE BUSH IS STILL THE PRESIDENT!".

I am sure many voters are tired of Obama and people like yourself constantly trying to run this country on the bassis of "Bush did it" or "Bush didn't do it". I think it's quite clear this country needs Republican leadership as Obama seems to judge all of his actions on what Republicans did.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

But you said if this were going on when Bush were president, he would have done something about it. As stated by Bush's own treasury secretary it was going on during his presidency. So if all things are equal, Bush and Obama are no different on this issue.

The thing is however, that all things are not equal. Bush was granted "Fast Track" authority to make trade deals by congress without really consulting congress. Obama doesn't have that authority. So you're setting the bar higher for Obama, while granting him one less lever of power to pull.

If you want Obama to cook dinner, you had at least better let him buy the groceries. Otherwise quit bitching about how it tastes.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

The currency manipulation came in VERY late on Bush's watch. It was right about the time Obama started his campaign on how fucked up America is, we had TARP going thru the works at that time too. Also you should know I did some reading up on te Fast Track, and that it wasn't much for a President in terms of power because the stuff had to come up thru the Senate and or House. Let's not forget the Democrats had control in the House and Senate in the later part of the Bush Administration, so if anyone failed to take advantage of the Fast Track it was the Democrats who were empowered to do so.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Are you on crack?

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

No but I bet a lot of House Democrats are out smoking crack tonight!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Or should I say EX-HOUSE DEMOCRATS!

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Enjoy it while you have it, the pengilum never seems to stay one direction forever.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Republican's in da House!

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Nice to see we have all consistently agreed on one thing!

China currency spat decision delayed

Report that could strain U.S.-China ties now expected in Nov.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39683974/ns/business-world_business/What more could you expect from the Obama Administration but "Let's wait until after election time before we do nothing".Total fucking joke!

Report that could strain U.S.-China ties now expected in Nov.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39683974/ns/business-world_business/

What more could you expect from the Obama Administration but "Let's wait until after election time before we do nothing".

Total fucking joke!